Łukasz Szpyrka, Interia: Was Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki a girl in Strasbourg?

The Prime Minister’s speech addressed what we have said many times in the European Parliament. I am pleased with his words and have the impression that the other members are as well.

Does this rhetoric change anything in Poland’s relations with the European Union?

Show some perspective. You can see all the items we’ve shown in the EP so far have been sorted. On the one hand, we have shown the nonsense of fighting Poland, when the European Union faces more serious challenges – it is no longer competitive in the world, it has problems with security and other issues related to the weakness of the economy. On the other hand, the Prime Minister emphasized the use of double standards that would destroy trust among the member states. So this discourse is only an element of a longer debate about what the future European Union should look like.

What is this perspective?

We are in a time when a lot will change. So far, the EPP is mainly leading the attacks on Poland, which were fueled by deputies from our opposition. After the elections in Germany, a new coalition is forming, and the European People’s Party, for the first time since its presence in the European Parliament, may not have a head of government in any of the largest countries. The balance of power will change, and there will be a reshuffle in the new European Parliament after half of its term. The Prime Minister’s speech was also set up to encourage the thinking that it is not in the interest of society to attack Poland’s most important, but greater integration.

Was that a waiting session? The prime minister wants to buy time?

– That’s the wrong word. I have not heard any voice in this discussion responding objectively to these serious doubts. How can a single treaty and the ruling of the Constitutional Court in Germany be acceptable and not in Poland? This is very important today in terms of whether there is any political will at all to strengthen Europe, not weaken it. Let us remember that Great Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union was a weakening of the group. Today the question arises whether we are able to stop this process. Do the major countries want to do this, or would they prefer to pursue a policy of weakening the European Union?

What is the process?

– Weakening the union and fighting between states within the union. Or maybe we want to build the union that Robert Schumann or de Gaspari spoke of.

“Polexit” for realny problem?

– The problem does not exist at all, because no party in Poland ever raises this issue at the moment.

During the discussion, we heard many comparisons between the situation of Poland and Brexit. One MP for the Prime Minister said he is walking the path of David Cameron.

Only in Great Britain, long before the referendum, opinion polls showed that society was divided in half and half. Great Britain is tired of the same cases in which Poland is being tested today, i.e. an official superpower, an overinflation of the law, or meaningless money spent. All this appeared in the referendum and had a strong impact. The idea today is to try to fix the vulnerabilities that we all know about. It won’t do you any good to find enemies among us.

Solidarna Polska is preparing for the second phase of judicial reform. Isn’t it a bit of a blanket for a bull?

– It may be so, but whatever we do, it will still be bad. The largest political groups want to bring the “civil forum” back to power. This is their main goal, and anything we do will be taken poorly. Although objective indicators show that we judge better than the buy order. From the German point of view, it is important to have a man of their own with them. And someone for them is Donald Tusk. He is a German man and they are doing everything they can to bring him back to power. However, we point out that this is not a good idea, because it may turn out that Tusk will not return to power in Poland, and our relations will deteriorate so much that it will be very difficult to rebuild them.

so what?

– You have to look for opportunities. Let’s remember that the union can change very quickly. A change of government is almost certain in Spain and Italy, and it may also happen in France. If there is a cabinet reshuffle in this country and one of the right-wing candidates wins, everything will change. The CDU is losing power in Germany, in France, the second most powerful country, and a right-wing politician, such as Eric Zemmour, may soon take over. All of this will have an impact on what happens in the EP. Throughout its history, Poland has waited for various moments of this kind – some of which it was able to take advantage of, and some of which did not. The point is to catch the moment, strengthen yourself and change the rules of business in the EU.

Guy Verhofstadt spoke of historical moments during the debate, warning that Poland today acts as it did at the end of the eighteenth century, when it consequently disappeared from the maps of Europe.

– It’s a good comparison in a way. Only that Poland disappeared from the map of Europe because outside powers placed their politicians here. Verhofstadt is either ignorant or knows it, but he affirmed it sarcastically. Colonial tendencies led Poland to a place where it disappeared from the world map.

Ursula von der Leyen in her letter referred, inter alia, to Lech Wałęsa, Lech Kaczyński and John Paul II.

Yes, but it exacerbated the dispute. She spoke sharply, and was not very conciliatory. Let me remind you that our EKR group trusted them and promised that we would all be treated equally. Unfortunately, the Germans fooled us again.

Judge Pawe Juszczyszyn, who had not ruled for 623 days, was in Strasbourg. Is this a symbol of this debate?

– Had he turned his ear to the right, he would have heard that if he doubted the appointment of other judges in any other country, he would not have been a judge for a long time. This is the basic constitutional principle relating to the independence of the judiciary. The fact that such a person is taken as a symbol here indicates the intellectual sterility of the opposition.

Interview with Łukasz Szpyrka

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